My conversation with an anarcho collectivist

He was arguing against individualist anarchy as a whole. English isn’t his native language by the way. i had this conversation on anarchyball’s facebook three days ago. it was a pretty good chat in my opinion.

The AnCol : the individualist wing often means that we don’t take care of others. it is like capitalism without rules and borders. and thats leads with time to the monopoly of power.
i mean, if you dont want to starve you must work. and if you cant build your own garden, and make your own food, you need mony. when you need mony you must work for someone else. and if you MUST work, they have power above you. do you know what i mean?

 Me : Anarcho capitalists and other individualist anarchists will often say that they would be willing to let communes exist . I haven’t seen people on the collectivist side share that sentiment.  i do think mutual aid groups would probably pop up in a voluntary society .

The AnCol : i think it is not about “just let the communes exist”, that means that the posebility to take care of an other is okay. i think that the altruism, must be a constant part of anarchism. i think that anarcho capitalism and other individualist parts of anarchism leads to addiction/dependence(i dont know the right word in english, in german i mean “Abhängikeit”, was means, that you need something, or someone) to someone. and if you need someone, even it is just a cooperation, they will have power. i think in collectivism, you will work for all, and all will work for you. all your needs are satisfied. with the rest of your time you can do what ever you want.
like “work 2 hours for the collective, and the rest of the day you can do what ever you want.”. You know what i mean? i think if the collective take care of you, and you take care of the collective, you have much more freedom than in the purely individualist anarchism. because you don’t need something, or someone.

Me: Voluntaryists (AnCaps) aren’t against charity or helping others. They’re against the idea of sacrificing yourself for the collective. i see anarcho communism as a form a voluntary governance because of the councils and voting. There is still central planning going on in an anarchist commune. the workers council can vote on how resources can be used instead of a private owner deciding what is best for their property. You can have an anarcho communist society within an anarcho capitalist society . But would a world where anarcho communism is the accepted system allow a anarcho capitalist society to exist ? From what i’ve seen anarcho communists say online. i do not believe they would. What happens if the minority disagrees with the majority in a commune ? Do they hold another vote? Anarcho communism sounds a lot like direct democracy to me.

The AnCol : Let me split my perspective of

I think the problem with anarcho capitalism and individualism is the survive of the weak. if i am ill, or disabled, i need a community who take care of me, right? in anarcho capitalism, there is the option to have a community like this. but maybe i am in de false city and there is none? whats next? i am alone and cant work for my food. how should i survive? i understand your point, but i think the care of the weak is the problem in this system.

let me get to the anarcho collectivism.
i think you have a good point, and i used to see those problems to, but i must say that i have not the solution for it.
in spain, they haven’t direct democracy, but a similar concept. they have votings, but with a difference to democracy. not the most votes win, no, they stopped the voting only when all of the people voted for the same thing.
maybe it takes its time, but, – and i think this is really important- there is no majority ruling the minority.

i think this is no conflict between anarcho capitalism and anarcho communism. i think both wings works with another, and i think they must work together, to build the best way.
use the concept of collectivism to to cover the basic needs.
and use anarcho individualism to ensure the freedom of the individuals. like i said before, in my mind is a split “work 2 hours a day for everyone, and everyone works 2 hours a day for you. the rest of the day you can make what ever you want.”. i dont know if there is a concept like this, but this is my dream of anarchism.

i liked our discussion.
even if i dont speak perfect english i have learn much from you.
i wish you a good night, and thanks for your time and your intelligent texts.


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